Did Plato create "Only the dead have actually seen the finish of war"?

because this quote appeared, attributed come Plato, in ~ the beginning of Ridley Scott"s 2001 movie "Black eagle Down", several human being have request me the exact source of the quote in Plato"s dialogues. Yet, I have been unable, come this day, to situate it in any kind of one of them.And I"m not the just one in that case! One person who asked to be Mr Michael Takiff, who had come up through the quote, attributed come Plato, in a letter indigenous a soldier in Vietnam to his father while preparing a publication called "Brave Men, gentle Heroes: American Fathers and Sons in civilization War II and also Vietnam", to be published by HarperCollins in 2003. Ns was unable to help him, but I later learned, in further exchanges I had with the by mail, that, through the aid of friends and also colleagues, he had come up with the following about the quote: nobody he had remained in touch with had actually been maybe to locate it in a dialogue of Plato. It shows up, again attributed come Plato, on the wall surface of the royal War Museum in London.

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Here is what mr Takiff created me on august 2, 2002 around the quote, based upon these data:

"I think it"s almost certain that MacArthur"s usage of the quotation in his famed speech in 1962 accounts because that the the popularity among American soldiers. However, I"m cynical that MacArthur is the ultimate source of the quotation"s attribution come Plato. My reason is that it appears, attributed to Plato (just Plato, no citation), on the wall of the imperial War Museum in London. (I owe my awareness of this figure of the quote to a previous professor that mine -- Victor Bers, a classicist in ~ Yale -- who freshly visited the museum.) The museum has been housed at this location due to the fact that 1936; the course, the quotation can have been put up any kind of time since. One would certainly think, however, the the holder of this college would practice more scholarly technique than the producer of a Hollywood war movie. And also so, I"m hesitant that the quotation"s route to the museum"s wall surface passed through basic MacArthur"s speech. I have actually just emailed the manager of study at the museum. I"ll let you understand what, if anything, I uncover out."

In short, the attribution of this quote come Plato remains many questionable, while its appearence in works by George Santayana is a fact, and the possibility that the resource of the misattribution to Plato be general McArthur is rather real, though not proven.

If ns learn much more about it, I"ll update this page. And also if anybody around finds that in among Plato"s dialogues, you re welcome let me know, I"ll it is in glad to include his/her surname to this web page as the finder of the quote in Plato...

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(1) In a text referred to as "A guide to studying history at fort Huachuca, only the dead space safe: war and history", easily accessible in PDF layout on the site of the US army Intelligence facility at fort Huachuca, and likewise in HTML style through Google, the quote is additionally attributed come George Santayana, but the source given over there is Santayana"s "The Life the Reason", Scribners, brand-new York, 1953. In the entry on George Santayana in the Stanford Encyclopaedia of ideology on the Web, one deserve to read: "Santayana"s continue to be in Oxford during the great War resulted in his famous counter to Wilson"s war to finish all wars: "Only the dead have actually seen the end of war." (Soliloquies in England and Later Soliloquies, 102)". On another site reproducing basic McArthur"s speech, the writer ot the site, bill Thayer, adds the complying with note with regard to the claimed Plato quotation: "I have actually been can not to discover this in Plato; and apparently I"m not the only one. Castle are undoubtedly to be discovered in the 20c philosopher George Santayana"s Soliloquies in England and also Later Soliloquies (1922), and also reappeared in The Life the Reason, a book published in 1953 quickly after the author"s fatality — throughout the oriental War at a time once they would have actually been very likely to capture Gen. MacArthur"s eye. A short thread ~ above the Classics-L has the opinion the these indigenous are currently widely seen as Plato"s precisely since of Gen. MacArthur"s misattribution in this speech." ()

Plato and also his dialogues: residence - biography - Works and also links come them - background of translate - new hypotheses - Map of dialogues : table variation or no tabular version. Tools: index of persons and locations - detailed and also synoptic chronologies - Maps of ancient Greek World.

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